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[Music]  okay we're gonna dive in just quickly  here on another option which is called a  methanol fuel cell few people in the  room actually have them I'm one two  three  anybody else am I missing four oh yay  methanol fuel cell number four in  British Columbia to have one who love it  I'm an early adopter I like this stuff  big fat big big fat  it's definitely I'm not saying it's a  replacement for solar but it's it's an  alternative it has its place so what is  it fuel cell sorry this is a little bit  whitewash this is the fuel canister it's  about two gallons ten liters  you've got a fuel cell right here fuel  cell is gives direct current output so  you can see it's directly connected to  the unsign of the battery right  and the reason I'm trying to reiterate  this unsigned is like a car there's not  a lot of wires going to a car battery  right you'll open your car it doesn't  matter how many gadgets you have in your  car there's two wires go into a car  battery  I believe in modular I believe in like  everything should be distributed right  like you should have a thing for a  purpose your battery posts are not  distribution points so everything is  phased out everything's modular so I  have unsweet distribution and we'll talk  about that and I saw in the first slide  we're all basically my charging voltages  or amperage go right here  your boy would go to it sometimes it  might go there if it's a simple install  but most likely it's actually going to  go to the untwist tribution  and it's a device that is about this big  this big and about this wide weighs  about 30 pounds I would say it's pretty  dead quiet  22 decibels one away in anybody that has  one how quiet it is can you hear it no  yeah it's a cat like if this is how you  when when it's on our boat if it's under  the hatch you'll never hear it forget  about it it's impossible it's not even a  fan okay like you open the hatch you  hold your breath and you go  yeah I heard it it's there 22 decibels  that's how quiet it is it's a cat  purring so you can't hear it you can't  feel it it vibrates but like so little  that you can't it has on these little  foam pads you can't if you were holding  it you'd feel it but it's got a little  foam pads underneath you can't feel it  agree  can't feel it so it's pretty amazing  dead quiet gives output it can run  because it's so quiet and it doesn't  vibrate you can't feel it so it runs in  the background it doesn't have high  output right like you can buy a 80 model  at 140 or 210 most people choose a 140  to ten that means the daily and power  production of the unit but that's if it  runs for a day but since it's so quiet  why not leave it run when it needs to  comes on and off automatically so no  noise no vibration no smoke and it's a  really good device for people that don't  need an AC generator right a generator  the crates they see that then they're  running all these other things like they  might be running like water makers dive  compressors this is a DC output it's a  battery charger that is running off  methanol that's what it is  right here's the canister people that  buy the to 10 I'd say are gonna buy  maybe three canisters a year people buy  the 140 maybe two how many canisters are  you using on your boat in a year two is  a good number  how many of you use so far how about no  yeah exactly  so the cost of the canister in Canadian  is around $80 so people that are gonna  say because you're gonna have naysayers  any any time there's a new technology  most of the rumors gonna say that's  stupid that's rule number one and then  they're gonna say well it's gonna be so  expensive you got to buy the fuel you're  like well is boating cheap like let me  know because I have had a different  experience  right Mike and I'm like three canisters  as $80 and I'm doing I used I used to  don't include every one of my dollars  spent on my boat on an Excel spreadsheet  in different categories for very good  health reasons I've stopped doing that  but I can tell you for a fact that two  hundred and forty dollars in my overall  boat budge  it is a rounding number that would never  be seen by any accountant they would be  like oh that's an accounting error it's  you die means you how would you ever  catch that okay and that's on the big  model so at the end of the day it is a  battery charger powered by methanol okay  it's the one advantage is unlike solar  it works year-round so for boaters that  are gonna be voting on the shoulder  season right that's really good winter I  go boating li rly I'm one of the crazy  ones two weeks Christmas I've done  desolation sound never saw another boat  it was amazing I own desolation sound  for two weeks or felt like it Gulf  Islands two weeks same thing would never  be able to do it and I'm a tanker like  I'm at Wallace Island on Christmas Day  have the dock and the island to myself  unless someone else with an e point  comes and joins me and I'm actually  powering the boat with E for you so  solar would never help me in the winter  and the other thing too what's really  nice is it's a small footprint the  install costs are limited when you're  doing this solar array the solar is only  half at best of the of the cost you've  got to do the labor it's very labor  intensive to do a solar array by time  you ride the wires mount everything  create everything that's a lot of  there's a lot of time involved a  methanol fuel cell is a very  straightforward device to install on a  boat right it's not a big deal you'll do  it  on average I'd say between marketing  they'll say you four hours it's never  gonna happen but that's easy  I'd say it's between seven to nine hours  on average is to do an e 44 install so  it's not crazy  I've had other boaters that have  installed install them on there about  four years ago they're changing boat we  take it out and we install in the new  boat because that doesn't have to go  with the boat nobody's if you don't list  it you take it out if you take away  solar panels they'll know there were  solar panels there that's like removing  the lights out of the fixtures and say  oh I didn't even notice I had lights in  here in their room really I've never had  light fixture lights really they'll know  you can't remove solar pads will just  put solar panels on your boat it's going  and staying with your boat but Annie Boy  it's not a commitment  as long as you're into boating or RVing  because I've done the same thing where  we install it on the RV but we also  pre-wired for the boat in the fall or in  the winter they use that down south and  then in the summer when they're voting  we swap it out and put it into the boat  so that's another thing too and you want  to make sure that you choose the right  size right so 80s 80 amp hours a day 140  amp hours a day or two hundred and ten  hours a day if you do the calculation  from their website you're always going  to end up to this ridiculous number you  have to talk to someone if you're trying  to curious talk to me to figure out what  the real size is but most people I'd say  it's like forty seven percent forty  seven percent and then like five percent  this one it's very rare people do ATS  very rare most people choose the one  forty two the 210 same footprint yeah  same footprint that the unit does need  some ventilation so there's you know you  do need some and it comes with vents and  routing but you can't have it in a  completely cool you could enclose it in  a refrigerator close the refrigerator  like any any unit needs some way to  dissipate the heat it does output  distilled water  so on some sailboats we'll run the hose  to the bilge or some other boats we'll  run into a little like a bike water  bottle right and then some people reuse  that water clearly to go back into their  distilled water for their flooded  lead-acid batteries now they have a way  to reach op the batteries the  orientation of the unit is important and  also if the ephah is far far away from  the batteries we end up increasing the  wire size to offset and we'll talk about  that tomorrow voltage drop voltage drop  is something it's about efficiency is  how do you harness all the energy from a  device I always carry a spare fuel  because that's an issue and I mean  that's a reality as as a boater that has  a methanol fuel cell you're not going to  be in the middle of nowhere and go and  as you can buy fuel so what I do on my  own boat I always carry for example if I  had an e for 140 I'd always have one  spare I have in E for 210 I have two  spares I have one on the unit  and I have to just waiting I have what I  need for a year on my boat so I simply  never have to worry about it when I  finish using one I go oh I got to get  another one and literally I'm never all  I forgot I'm at Easter with friends and  then I'm missing fuel right because  you're not gonna you're not gonna go in  the middle of nowhere on Cortez or in  desolations sound in refuge Cove and say  do you have an e4 cartridge for me  please it's not we're not there on the  adoption rate yet so you buy them in  centers like Nanaia was gonna have it  Sydney Campbell rivers gonna have it  even I had a place in port port in Port  McNeil port hardy you can get them in  those places but in the remote places  you're not gonna have any foil cartridge  the methanol so that's something to  consider yeah and that's a good point  I'm gonna actually I'm gonna bring that  yeah what about other countries people  that are going offshore that are using  their boat every day day in day out and  are literally sailing away into the  sunset and they're gonna go to Fiji  now it doesn't make sense it won't it  doesn't because where you gonna get the  fuel right you need it's more for  coastal cruising right and also yeah the  fuel ability would be a big challenge  right so people are here coastal no  problem people who go offshore now that  you can't have it for example sailors  that race Vic Maui perfect device don't  increase your battery bank size right  don't run the engine while under way  have it you sail the Y two weeks three  weeks come back perfect right make sense  but someone who's going offshore for  five years ten years or they intend to I  would be proposing that yeah the memory  has a limited life absolutely that's  another thing too and nothing lasts  forever on average with heavy use ePHI  has the numbers I think in Germany  they're saying about seven years ten  years to get to about 50 percent of  output on heavy use most people using  three fuel cartridges a year will never  see that  we're light users here beep yeah  absolutely because it's not a time thing  it's ours right like for example an e fo  and m10 cartridge will give you 900 amp  hours so on mine unit 900 something  right 24 hours at 210 that's about 4  days in a bit  that's only 100 hours in a year if I use  it 300 hours and now I'm a heavy user  right that's over 3000 hours over 10  years until I get there right so it's  like anything else usage is the factor  and what I always want to emphasize  about something like that is you're not  building your electrical system around  it this is in supplement to everything  you already have on your boat so if you  have a battery charger if you have an  alternator this doesn't replace both of  those items it's it's about filling you  know between the peaks and the valleys  it's about filling in those points when  you don't have power your alternator and  you want to stay an extra day you can  stay the first day most of us can stay  the first day in Anchorage all the time  we're gonna eventually move but it's  about filling in the voids at the end  right because it's not doing everything  it actually will shut itself off if it  doesn't need to run if your whole boat  didn't have batteries or had a small  battery no alternator no charger you'd  use it a lot more but it's in supplement  to what you already have on your boat  any questions on methanol fuel cells yes  absolutely especially small boats I'm  not sure what's the size of your boat  yeah like the 80 would probably be a  really good size yeah yeah but on a 27  foot sailboat you you there's all  there's a way there's a way there's a  way I've done I've done a 24 foot  sailboat around the world weird he ended  up going with this built at home boat  and he ended up going with this because  he's not sailing all the time he's  sailing for a bit stops comes back to  work goes back has the fuel delivered  and it's a way to supplement  he's a purist it doesn't like he doesn't  actually have an engine no no no it's  not it's that's a fallacy that's a Miss  that is a misunderstanding now here's  where they probably got that from  it emits and I might give this wrong  carbon carbon dioxide but so do i and it  admits the same amount as a cat so if  you kind of willing to lock down your  boat  duct tape everything hotbox it your this  would be a good way to go like that's  probably better in their car you will  die in your boat for sure guaranteed so  yes it does emit but it's the amount of  a cat so if you can't bring a cat into  your boat then I would say maybe we need  to think about ventilation ventilation  might be an option because it might be  you're probably going on your boat  you're always drowsy you're like this is  amazing I really relaxed on my boat all  the time like I'm always coming here I  can't sleep at home somebody coming on  my boat and I'm always passing out yeah  no you cannot install it it doesn't it  but it doesn't that's the thing and  that's the thing about new technologies  it's not that you it's been around for a  while  I think ePHI is bait built in Germany I  need they've been in business for 1215  years something like that like it's not  like the first time and but people just  have these connotations they're probably  thinking generator you can't have a  generator in your cabin like what about  gassing what's gonna happen you can mine  is definitely inside not everyone does  the only concern might be in a really  warm engine room might be a concern any  other questions yeah they're actually  very similar yeah they're very similar  like the 140 is about five grand  Canadian about maybe a little bit more a  little yeah I think me fifty-one  fifty-two I don't know but the big  sensor is the install costs are  straightforward right because it's a day  now you might install it yourself  doesn't matter or just have someone do  it solar panel if you're gonna span for  example 140 watt good quality solar  panel 145 watt solar panel is about $850  to have the same type of output you need  for okay so now you're around 32  you need controllers you're either go  for two big ones  you're about total for Graham then you  need wine added another 500 you got 45  now you got to do the labor now you got  to mount them right the labor is not a  day the I don't an optimist right like I  scare people all the time when my  numbers all the time lots of potential  clients go oh well he's crazy I'm like  no I'm not gonna lie to you to then  pretend that I'm disappointed that it  didn't go as well as I thought like I'm  gonna set the expectation right away  things are expensive and if we were not  okay with that that's fine but we're not  gonna pretend that we're surprised that  things take a long time on a boat and  then you got to put I'll come to that  and then you got to basically do the  work so sore is always in my opinion  gonna be more money than an e poi it's  not to say one is better than the other  it really depends on how you use your  boat right some people love solar they  boat just in the summer I have voters  that just do summer boating and they  they also like the idea and that's it  that's all they do you're just voting in  the summer you know there is an argument  to do solar absolutely and if you're  going offshore well then Solar makes a  lot of sense if you're in two places  remote totally makes sense but if you're  doing fall or winter then Solar is it's  hard to justify as the only option right  question yeah it yeah rule number one  nothing is easy all right any other  questions on methanol fuel cells okay